They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. They found plenty of resources when they realize they were going to be burning all the money making business is down on Monday. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. Everyone knew how dry it was. On Sunday evening we discussed with Gatlinburg friends the forecast for high winds on Monday, so I disagree with local Gatlinburg officials that they were caught by surprise. Case in point is our European religious history. The governors promised investigation has yet to appear (if it ever will), but the National Parks investigation is proceeding and no locals are on that team. About 20 years ago, I hiked to Albright Grove, an old-growth hemlock forest near Greenbrier. We strive to use real facts, not alternative facts, on Wildfire Today. Firefighters from Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge responded. Neitherwas enough rain to halt the drought, of course, nor was it enough to have an extended effect on the the Chimney Tops 2 Fire. Just looking at media coverage on the evacuation order public messaging snafu points out that this fire will provide many lessons learned for future fire managers. Crews are currently taking down the China Bazaar and Puckers building. Very well put Mari. Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out. A fire burns at a high-rise building under construction in the Tsim Sha Tsui district in Hong Kong on March 3, 2023. Not every fire manager gets the benefit of a meteorologist in your hip pocket, but there are many good weather websites available. Thats totally untrue. Above: Chimney Tops 2 Fire at 9:37 p.m. November 28, 2016 after it had burned into Gatlinburg, Tennessee. On November 23 when the fire was discovered the KBDI was 599, Molly Schroer, a spokesperson for the IMT told us. We both were winded, nervous, and running to grab one change of clothes, night clothes, and tooth brushes. How did I know that? They didnt want CNN down there declaring their tourist town a death trap. They decided instead to monitor and to identifyon a map areas for indirect containment lines which encompassed 410 acres. Anticipating the fire season, firefighting resources (people and equipment) were brought in from around the Southeast and other parts of the country. Watch This is Now, live from the Hawaii News Now Digital Center, weekdays on KHNL at 12 p.m. and on all of our streaming platforms. We need a growing pool of resources who have gained knowledge and wisdom hat can be applied to future events, not to lessen the pool by throwing out those who failed but are not a failure. Ever since Hurricane Katrina, I have doubted the ability of our emergency managers to plan for any aspect of, or kind of disaster, and the fire in Gatlinburg only supports my concerns. Lets say the NPS put a crew on it day one in steep inaccessible terrain as they say it was in. This is just one more example of one more related issue that is seemingly un-connected until you delve into the issues deeply. As a mountain boy who loves the harshest terrain even I couldnt imagine trying to run a fire line in this area. 119K views 4 months ago GATLINBURG Many people get worried when they hear the words Gatlinburg and Fire in the same sentence. (Bloomberg) -- Zoom Video Communications Inc. slumped in early trading Friday after abruptly terminating the employment of . So because of his and other incompetence property owners are paying the price. I hope the governors investigation team finds all of the miscues AND gets proper training for all the different agencies involved. China Bazaar, Pucker's Sports Grill, Gifts of . Regardless, the appropriate aerial assault should continue. Are city and county officials learning to use the expensive Motorola radio system that would have allowed various agencies to communicate when cell service went down? There were and continue to be many deaths and fires that occurred in those western areas, and with those IMT expert Teams, that taught hard lessons, and enabled those people to gain experience and become the so called experts in the field. I was in the area hiking November 21 and there was no smoke coming from the Chimneys area. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. We saw some trucks when we drove out late morning. GRSM firefighters spotted the new fire as they returned from responding to a report of a vehicle fire. Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. Bob called. China Bazaar, Pucker's Sports Grill, Gifts of Gatlinburg, and Caf 420 were all deemed a complete loss. Most of those resources were involved in those ongoing fires and unavailable for immediate response to a small fire, when it was still small. Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? Much needed rainfall is expected on Monday with additional rainfall possible through Wednesday. You certainly got it right when you said that sometimes government does not listen and it takes a loud voice. This is what happened with a handful of officials/personnel regarding the fatal 2000 black bear mauling of a woman hiker in Elkmont. Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. And we were lucky. These are the facts and simple truths that should not be ignored. Tom, I want to express to you how sorry I am to hear about the loss of your cabin, what you went through escaping the fire, what you have gone through since the fire and what you are facing. The report stated the roof started to collapse, and the building was deemed too unsafe to work inside. The actual clifts are small and easily avoided. We waited as the days passed until we could go and see if ours had burned. > Jeannine In my 40 years in the fire service (Calif and Alaska), I have seen an unfortunate number of cases where agencies in generaland the NPS in particulardesignate fires as monitored event(s) (insert favorite agency terminology here) that hours, or days, later explode into huge incidents. We are excited to start new memories and get back on the trails. If this is the same Bob Stanton commenting here, then the bias is way too obvious. Ive posted this type of questioning on other Wildfire Today articles. I just hope, like Jeannine, that fire managers can learn from this tragedy because we really need the tool of prescribed fire in the tool box. Will Lessons Learned fade into distant short-term US fire management history archives once again. Yes, there had been many fires in the southeast during the 6 to 8 weeks before the fire started in Great Smoky Mountains NP, but it is my understanding that at that time they had diminished and there may have been significant firefighting resources available. I think this is more often than not the case. Good points about differentiating between prescribed fire and the wildfire. At 10AM we drove to Sevierville to buy more materials (to eventually add to the bonfire). Granted these fires werent inside Gatlinburg, but the fire chief knew full well the potential for catastrophic wildfires in these mountains. He also raked as many leaves as he could from around our cabin. Forecasts were issued each day from November 24 through 27; we could not find one for November 28 the day the fire burned into Gatlinburg. We had better see something besides suggestions for new warning systems and making people that are rebuilding their homes put in overly expensive sprinkler systems that way they can say to the press they made major strides and changes and they learned from the fire. You are reading this like most folks with common sense and a little analytical process, being all the data as you stated isnt on the table. I hope that EM officials and local planning officials reconsider what and how structures are rebuilt in that area. The cause of the crash remains under investigation. But, that team is there to give future corrective actions, not to formulate lawsuits. This is how we all get better at what we do and are. For the most current information about the Chimney Tops 2 Fire at Gatlinburg, see our articles tagged Chimney 2 Fire. Take my word for it, Ive seen back scratching going on down there for over 40 years. I began to notice people smoking while driving their vehicles when I would be out and about and they would flick burning embers out windows and sometimes throw cigarettes out windows. Breathing between car and house was hard. I looked at the NWS Forecast Discussion and told my sister They should order pre-evacuation before the wind gets strong.. One thing I have learned is that the news media, especially in todays world is just as skilled and often benefits from pushing their own agendas as well. Jordans comments on the video indicates that their management was taking care to show how they were not responsible. I ran other errands and stopped by cabin to unload groceries before picking boys up from school. The deaths in this incident can be attributed to being trapped and forced to shelter in place. They were in their driveway with a water hose. Years ago, the NPS wasnt maintaining the churches in Cades Cove of the Smokies. It would make suppression efforts difficult, but a fire break could have been constructed around the original slow-moving fire in the early days. We could see the smoke. Some of those GSMNP personnel were trained out west and know how fast a wildfire spreads in high winds. From 7 p.m. until midnight sustained winds were at 13 to 17 mph with gusts from 34 to 49. Susan, There could be falling trees. Under ideal conditions they can temporarily slow the spread, which may be effective if firefighters on the ground can move in quickly totake advantage of the short termchange in fire behavior by constructing firelines, stopping the spread at that location. Thanksfully ATF agents helped TN Bureau of Investigation put their full resources at hand and arrested to two teenage idiots that started the fire. National Park Service says never push a slower friend down when escaping a bear, Knoxville utilities crews work to restore power after intense storms, Missing elderly Knoxville woman last seen at hospital, police say, Vols drop to 5-seed in SEC Tournament after falling at Auburn, 79-70. fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. I think were all just going to come back and rebuild stronger than ever, he said. But the pickup trucks I encountered were full of wildfire firefighters, inside the City of Gatlinburg. The fire gutted the entire city block and closed a dozen businesses. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway, caused extensive damage to a block of businesses, the city's spokesperson said. I got out of the car and walked up to the side of the pickup truck. The report stated the demolition was requested due to the health and safety of the citizens and visitors in the event of a full structure collapse.. There is a marked increase in smoke and decreasing visibility due to the smoke. This Park Ranger was appointed to this position in December 2014 and he took office in February 2015, so in a span of one year and nine months he managed to let the place burn and we have owned property there for 32 years and nothing remotely like this has ever happened. The body of a person has been found in the rubble of a fire in downtown Gatlinburg, our ABC affiliate WATE reported Monday. Not because I am a teller of fortune. First of all I was very concerned when the wildfires started over in North Carolina, in some of the National Forest that border Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Nicely put together article. Just like the mayor of Amity in Jaws, they were not about to evacuate the entire city on Thanksgiving weekend. I am in my late 60s and have never seen such a drought, or such low stream levels. Lets see, that would probably consist of a GS-5 or 6 and two or three seasonal GS-4s. strong south, southwest winds, extreme drought, low humidity..ect.., that something similar didnt happen here. I agree, this has many players to blame and starts with Superintendent Cassius Cash and trickles down to the City and County. On November 11 some hikers found a fire built in the middle of the trail on brushy mountain trail. I told him my home was on fire and he said they were evacuating everyone,then. Though it will never be heard in our courts today, dont think the Almighty isnt going to bring it to Light; for human death was involved and the facts were dodged plan and simple. I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. This year has been crazy, with so many fires happening in Autumn. Between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m.they increased to 7 to 15 mph with gusts of 22 to 32 mph all generally out of the south, blowing toward Gatlinburg. Here is one interview I gave to a Cincinnati station 2-3 days after the fire. That mall is also rigidly enforced. I was nervous about it. I am a management specialist and I understand how to plan, and implement risk-protection and safety in many kinds of settings, to address various threats to people. Watch the pride and ego firefighters: youll never outmatch Gods elements. I viewed aerial photos of that area over the past 10 years (on USGS website). Floods, tornadoes, severe storms, wildfires, mudslides, hurricanes, what else?, all present risks to humans and their property which require different degrees of political management and oversight in our various muncipalities to keep us safe or to help us recover if we suffer consequences when we arent kept safe. This would help the owners defray some costs so they can rebuild. (Originally published at 11:04 a.m. MST November 23 . It is not a black and white world, not a this or that, it is all encompassing. I went back a few years ago and it was completely different. On Monday November 28 it recorded wind gusts in that part of the state at46 to 60 mph, and a 76 mph gust on Wednesday. In this case, there were no firefighters in a position to take direct action. We need to hold, that experience though often shared, does not fit into every mold, because in the real world though some laws are universal, there is always changing variable and situations are never really exactly the same. I also noted that the use of Red Flag Alerts and prescribed burning around some of the more populace areas was both lacking, and being conducted during predicted high wind conditions. Aircraft dropping water or fire retardant on a fire cannot put it out. Stumps burned into the ground and look like volcano caldera. If the NPS backfires were not ignited on the 28th; then they had to be ignited on the 27th a day before the fire broke out. Once the winds came on day 5 or 6, there was nothing anyone could do. I saw Wyoming and Colorado engines being demobalized after containment. A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. There will be legal repercussions because of incompetence. Also. Shame on you. Nonetheless, it is obvious to some folks that the NPS did not act aggressive enough on this fire. For the region, I hope fire officials do realize that regional history makes little difference if the right combination of factors exists for rapid and extreme fire growth. The GRSM person that requested the Spot wrote: Concerned about ridgetop winds with the coming front. LeConte. However, by the time a federal judge dropped the charges six months later, some had lost focus on the fire. Fire Summary. Bats were roosting in the church rafters and dropping feces onto the pews. Suppression actions, especially backfires, causing way more damage to natural resources than the wildfire is doing., First rule of any structure fire or wildfire. Money. I knew high winds were predicted for Gatlinburg by watching the weather channel. They had their moment in history and did not rise to it. As citizens we should be aware of all threats we face and expect our leadership to plan ahead as best they can. They strive to their utmost and have a true passion working in GSMNP. Work for the NPS and see their Fire-is-not-our-mission outlook on fires and know that they will not be a aggressive enough, will not have seasoned fire staff, will not allow their staffs go out on fires and get the necessary experience. Thank you for the timeline and the opportunity for comments. True, our firefighters and 1st responders put their lives in harms way and we should respect them; and yet distinguish these folks from officials who are undoubtedly making bad calls/decisions. One person was found dead Sunday. Jody, you have said well what Ive wanted to say from my impressions made after the fire about this tragic situation. A map posted with the Fire Information sign dated November 27 showed that the park hoped to stopthe fire before it crossed the bottom of drainages on the west, north and east sides, and the Chimney Tops Trail to the south. time. Sunset that day was at 5:21 p.m. which would have allowed them to drop on the fire until 5:51 p.m., 30 minutes after sunset. Classic Swiss Cheese risk management fire management failurehave we as a profession learned anything since South Canyon, Yarnell and now Chimney Top 2? There isn't one specific cause behind the fires, Boyd said. All three incidents have a common denominator. A true lackadaisical response. Maybe a second year of drought? Gusts above 40 continued until 2 a.m. on Tuesday when they mostly dropped below 20 mph for the rest of the day. Thanks again for this forum. I believe that many, many people are alive now because they did use common sense but some of the people who died, were victims of circumstances that they should never have faced if their public officials had been acting solely on their responsibility, first and foremost, and perhaps only, to protect and serve. Ive been told by others that they were waiting for the rain to move in based on the forecast and it didnt arrive when they expected so in the meantime they did nothing. We discussed what we would/could do if we had to evacuate. No evacuation orders issued- If I had gone to work that day my two sons would be dead. Period. The whole thing is unconscionable to me. Not action to punish or lay blame, but to facilitate learning that changes actions. What about helicopters dumping water? Having said that, I used to work on an incident management team whose purpose was to manage what we called years ago, let burn fires. The Spur or US 441 runs between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg in the Smokies. Good comments by all. There were emergency vehicles blocking Motor Nature Trail. That said, we are now in the rebuild mode. On Sunday when GSMNP called in helicopter water drops, there were 3 fire tanker planes sitting on the runway 20 minutes away in Chattanooga (covered in Wildfire Today). You do not hang your child or throw them out for, with good intention making the wrong choices, you teach them and help them to understand the consequences. Please keep in mind our commenting ground rules before you post a comment. You can only manage one of those. There are A lot of cheap seats in the arena filled with people who never venture onto the floor. Thank you for making a point of the fact that we are all human beings with faults by design so that we need each other to succeed and survive. I was in my cabin the night of the fire and if I had spotted it a minute or so after I did I would not be alive to type this right now. Digression from Comment Thread Whatever happened to good old common sense decisions considering the drought, excessive fuels, and weather! Their inter-agency investigation needs to look at the 1st Chimney Tops Fire of the 12/13th to the 17th of November 2016. Yet no one made a move. There should be accountability for those in charge, in every arena of governance and responsibility and at every level. The main road out of Gatlinburg is the Spur, which is the 5 mile stretch of Park Service Road that lies between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. The electricity goes out almost everytime there is a high wind. Fortunately, Wildfire Today and Knox News had both published detailed timelines about what happened and when, before the Sevier County DA cut off the info flow. That didnt happen here. Sweeney, to be honest weve never experienced circumstances quite like this. I thanked her, hung up and told Stanton to go load Ladys kennel. My vacation cabin in Gatlinburg burn to the ground on November 28. Before the forest fires in the southeast this fall, I didnt know very much about wildfire fighting management (other than a bit from a mountain rescue EMT friend in Colorado and a friend that helps with prescribed burns for Georgia Conservancy). Deputy Park Superintendent Jordan Clayton said the initial fire on an area called Chimney Tops, a double peaked ridge line about 4 miles away from Gatlinburg, was caused by a person or. Many structures were lost- thankfully no lives. I have seen local hiking pictures that appear to show two separate smoke columns on Saturday 11/26. The remains of 745 Main Street in Buffalo on Thursday, March 2, 2023., where a fire broke out on Wednesday . That should have been done over Thanksgiving! A club . Why hasnt the NPS mentioned this first fire of the 14th? This fire as did others around this time had highly predictable potential for massive and rapid spread. Things are changing slowly, and the human factors are unfortunately changing at a much slower pace than the climate and other socio-economic factors. Download the WATE 6 News app or sign up for our email alerts for updates. It certainly should be addressed, by We, the People. They are just as clandestine of a secret society as the city officials of Gatlinburg and Sevier County. it would not be the first time that political or other motivation caused biased reporting. With all due respect to your comment, you seem to be a bit condescending toward some folks asking very legitimate questions; and giving the impression you are trying to the get the heat off the back of NPS officials. Being asleep at the wheel is no excuse. I thought if we were have to leave we could take both vehicles to our friends house to sit out the night. Kids should be charged and pay a price but so do several officials in the good old boy still lives on in the town of Gatlinburg. My husband stopped the car and the two men inside identified themselves as city water department employees. The cause of the fire remains under investigation by the GFD, Gatlinburg Police Department and the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. 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